No. 29 Memorandum of a Conversation Between William King, Esq., of Savannah, and Carl Schurz
Savannah, July 31, 1865.
Question by Mr. Schurz. What are the ideas of the people in this State as to the future organization of your labor system?
Answer. It is generally conceded that slavery is dead, but it is believed that the negro will not work unless compelled to. Money is no inducement that will incite him to work. He works for comfort, that is, he wants to gain something and then enjoy it immediately afterwards. He has no idea of the binding force of a contract, and it is questionable whether he ever will have.
Question. So you consider the contract system, as it is now introduced here and there, a failure.
Answer. In a number of cases that I know of it is a failure. The negroes are not doing the work they have contracted for. I know other cases in which they have remained with their former masters, work well, and produce fair crops.
Question. In what manner, then, can, in your opinion, the free-labor system be made to work here?
Answer. The negro must be kept in a state of tutelage, like a minor. For instance, he may be permitted to freely choose the master for whom he wants to work; he may bind himself for a year, and, for all practical purposes, the master must act as his guardian.
Question. You think, then, something more is necessary than a mere contract system by which the negro is only held to fulfil his contract?
Answer. Yes. The negro ought to be held in the position of a ward.
Question. Do you not think the negro ought to be educated, and do you believe the people of this State would tax themselves for the purpose of establishing a general system of education?
Answer. I think it would be well to have the negro educated, but I do not think the people of this State would tax themselves for such a purpose. The people are too poor and have too many other things to take care of. We have to look for that to the people of the North. The North having freed the negroes, ought to see to it that they be elevated. Besides, the poor whites are not in favor of general education at all. They are themselves very ignorant, and look upon education as something dangerous. For them we must have a system of compulsory education, or we cannot get them to send their children to school. A good many of the Hardshell Baptists among them look upon school-teachers as the emissaries of the devil.
Question. How far do you think the people of this State would be prepared to grant the negro equality before the law? Would they, for instance, give him the right to testify in courts of justice against white men?
Answer. I think not. It is generally believed that the negro has no idea of the sanctity of an oath.
Question. Do you not think such disabilities would place the negro under such disadvantage in the race of life as to deprive him of a fair chance?
Answer. This is the dilemma, in my opinion: either we admit the negro’s testimony in courts of justice, and then our highest interests are placed at the mercy of a class of people who cannot be relied on when testifying under oath; or we deny the negro that right, and then he will not be in a position to properly defend his own interests, and will be a downtrodden, miserable creature.
Question. Do you not think vagrancy laws and police regulations might be enacted, equally applicable to whites and blacks, which might obviate most of the difficulties you suggest as arising from the unwillingness of the negro to work?
Answer. Perhaps they might; but the whites would not agree to that. The poor whites hate and are jealous of the negro, and the politicians will try and please the whites so as to get their votes.
Question. Do you think it would be advisable to withdraw our military forces from the State if the civil government be restored at an early date?
Answer. It would not be safe. There are a great many bad characters in the country who would make it for some time unsafe for known Union people, and for northerners who may settle down here, to live in this country without the protection of the military. The mere presence of garrisons will prevent much mischief. The presence of the military is also necessary to maintain the peace between the whites and blacks, and it will be necessary until their relations are settled upon a permanent and satisfactory basis.
This memorandum was read by me to Mr. King and approved by him as a correct reproduction of the views he had expressed.
C. Schurz